Dripping in Science and Social Impact featuring Dr. Claire Murigande

Dominic Lawson (00:01.698)
What's up good people all across the world. This is the dripping in black podcast. I am your guest host, Dominic Lawson, multi award winning podcaster. And I serve as the director of podcasts for our education company. Just want to thank the man from behind the glass SSquared again for this amazing opportunity. Now, before I go and continue, you see the fit, you know what we do. Get the merch, right? D I B K drip shop.com.

If you want this type of merchant, others from mugs and other things to kind of say, Hey, I'm part of the Dripping in Black family. So make sure you go to dibkdripshop.com, but let me get to the task at hand. She is a multi award nominated speaker and exceptional moderator and the leader who bridges science leadership and social impact with a PhD in biology and executive MBA in digital leadership and a career rooted in thoughtful leadership.

She has been recognized as an influential voice of change by the female factor in 2024. She is the host of Narratives of Purpose podcast, a show that shines a spotlight on change makers across the globe, delving into crucial topics with youth empowerment, health equity, and the future of sustainable food systems. She is the one, the only, she's one of one, Dr. Claire Murigande. Dr. Murigande, how are you ma'am?

Claire Murigande (01:23.586)
I am doing great. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. And as much as I like the sound of Dr. Murigande you you can call me Claire if it's easier for you.

Dominic Lawson (01:32.6)
Listen, listen, we like to make sure we put out the honorifics when it comes to people who do good work. So since you gave that permission to me, now I'll just say Claire, because we just homies, right? We just homies, we just talk. But no, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show, Claire. Please just kind of share with us a little bit about, you know, who you are, what you do, and things of that nature, because we are fascinated to know more about you.

Claire Murigande (01:45.867)
Exactly.

Claire Murigande (02:01.111)
Who am I? That's a very, very big question. Well, as you mentioned before, so I podcast, I moderate events. I'm really working towards amplifying the voices of those who are really changing things in society. And my training background, if you will, is more on the scientific part. So I have a PhD in biology. So I studied for a very long time. I went all the way through the PhD. The reason for that is always because I'm so fascinating from...

about learning so many different things that, you know, for me, it's basically a continuous process. And I couldn't go further than the PhDs at some point had to decide to start working. But yeah, and I'd say overall, I'm more of a curious person. And I like to connect things and to connect people and to also show how even in times of difficulty, actually, we can all lean on each other and learn from each other. So in a nutshell, that's me. But I guess we'll be

going into a bit more details throughout the conversation.

Dominic Lawson (03:02.976)
For for sure. want to ask you a follow-up based on something you said. You said you are a curious person, right? Because I think this world could use a lot more curious people as opposed to like judging and things of that nature, but I digress. Talk about how being a curious person has been beneficial, not just to your work and career rise, but also personal as well. Because I think that's important.

Claire Murigande (03:31.908)
think, you know, a few years back I was a bit reflecting on my career and the choices I've made and I realized one thing is that although I'm not the type of person who regrets a lot, but I wish I would have learned very early on how to think critically, right? How to question things. And perhaps that me being curious was my way of going through that, right? Now with time, obviously, and know, going through...

what I'm doing right now, interviewing people, I guess I'm taking that road on thinking, okay, why are things like this? Why do, you know, we have to make things standardized, for example, why it doesn't match everyone, right? Why are structures this way when they don't include everybody? So these are all, you know, critical thinking or critical way of looking at how we live as human beings on this earth. And curiosity for me was mostly about trying to understand

and figure out how actually things work and how people work. I think I clearly remember, I can't tell you how old I was, maybe six or seven years old, but there was this book, I don't know if it was in the library or at home, but it was basically like, I think a book for kids somehow, where they explain to you how the human body is constructed, you know, like the different organs and all these things. And this has been something that always stayed in my memory. And I think that's why I've always fascinated by science.

is to try to understand how did people figure out how a heart looks like and how it works, how it pumps blood and gives blood to all the organs and your cells. And for me, that's where the curiosity comes from, is to try to understand how is it that it's like this? How is it that a tree grows in this place, not in the other place? How is it that in winter they lose their leaves, whether in fall, autumn?

For me, it's more like try to understand my environment. Curiosity was always about understanding my environment. And the way it has helped me is that I think, I hope, that I've managed to navigate through different environments pretty well because I'm always open to try to understand. So I guess that's how it has served me so.

Dominic Lawson (05:47.03)
Absolutely. And I'm glad you shared that because, you know, and especially connecting the curiosity piece to science, because I think for some reason, I don't know why it is, it feels like to a certain degree, science is kind of a bit under attack, right? You know, we have people now who say, no, the earth is flat. And we have people who say pandemic wasn't real and things of that nature. as a scientist,

Right? Like how do you, how do you engage? I don't want say engage the world, but how, when you hear these comments and, and people saying things that have been proven for years, decades, maybe even hundreds of years, right? As a scientist and you hear these comments, what does that know? What does that do to you? Like, what does that make you think? Does that give, does it, you know, does it, it, do you feel like

not hopeless as far as like future goals or stuff like that. Just kind of talk about that a little bit.

Claire Murigande (06:49.668)
I I mostly wonder where it's coming from, right? I don't personally think that it's, although it looks like, you know, science being under attack, I think for me, it's a matter of understanding why are people thinking like this or why are they saying what they're saying? And most of the time it's not about the science itself. There's something else underneath, right? Whether it's beliefs, whatever, put anything you want in there. It can be religion. I have no idea. But the thing is,

I also as a scientist, I learned with time to change also what I learned, because I learned through one lens, through the Western lens of looking at nature and everything and science and how you learn things into silos, so to speak, which I don't mean is wrong. It was a way of seeing things and establishing structure. But we all know that, even if you look in the past, you know, where science comes from, sometimes it has been used

maliciously if you can say like that to explain other things which are not really rooted into the the search of you know of science itself i don't know how i can define that better and and one thing that's really important i've seen you know come much more front and center recently when you talk about climate change for example and obviously you know from a western perspective and technology is being used a lot there's many things we can do

But something that's really important is also rooting back into Indigenous knowledge. And that is also science. It's just another way of seeing. And depending on where you are on this planet, then these different populations have developed their own scientific view. So I call it science today because this is what I, you know, the environment in which I grew up in. This is how we understand each other, you and me. But maybe if I was from a different population from, I don't know, from some islands in the Pacific.

I wouldn't call it science, but basically it's about understanding how nature, how life in the end works. Right. And how do I fit in that or how do I work with that environment? So, you know, to answer your question, I understand it is under attack, but I think for me personally, it has much more to do than science itself, but rather maybe some power play and some other things that, you know, people are maybe not

Claire Murigande (09:13.656)
happy about losing some privilege. So we can go into that, I think, a whole separate conversation. But I think it's mostly important to understand why are people talking about that? Why do they feel insecure because of talking about COVID and people they want to vaccinate? Why is that? Maybe it's more than just the science. Maybe they have some other mechanism behind that explains some other thing that needs to be solved, which is not the science itself. So it's really, really interesting.

Dominic Lawson (09:16.686)
Great.

absolutely.

Claire Murigande (09:43.566)
question and I think it deserves the I guess a deeper discussion.

Dominic Lawson (09:48.654)
No, for sure. like, you know, the part of the conversation you were talking about earlier, like it's one thing to be curious, right? Like science is based in asking questions and being curious, right? But there's, it feels like there's times now more than ever. And I imagine it's not new to our generation in our era, right? Like, but it's just one of those things where it's like, now there are people, especially here in the States, I'm just gonna be honest.

Here in the States, seems like now those people are now making policy based on those doctrines, right? And that part is what kind of frightens me, I guess a little bit. speaking of, absolutely, absolutely. And speaking of regime change and policy making and things of that nature, obviously we just had a new regime change and a transition of power here in the States. And it's gotten, when people are kind of,

Claire Murigande (10:27.78)
Absolutely right.

Dominic Lawson (10:46.296)
thinking about, you know, maybe the states ain't for me right now. Maybe I need to move somewhere else. And so Dripping in Black Family, we haven't really discussed this, but Claire's coming to us from Switzerland as we have this conversation. So I'm curious before we kind of move into our conversation about your work in the podcast and stuff like that, Narratives of Purpose, by the way, make sure you go and check that out on any of your major podcast platforms.

What is it like for a person of color in Switzerland and that, you know, navigation of just living and working and all those things?

Claire Murigande (11:28.558)
I don't know if there's one answer to that. guess it all depends on your circumstances, your experience and obviously how you got here. So for me, I spend most of my life in Switzerland. So I like to say that I know my way around. So I don't, like there's a few barriers that I probably don't need to deal with, right? One of which being the language. I always talk about that, but.

Dominic Lawson (11:30.466)
That's fine. That's fine.

Claire Murigande (11:56.11)
So the countries is split in different linguistic regions. So there's actually four official languages, but three major ones. And I speak two of them and I've lived in the two geographic regions where these languages are predominant. I, that's for me already one less barrier, I would say. And the fact of growing here and I mean, I guess you could relate to that as well. You, you know, you've lived in the U S for a while. You kind of know how things work and how people think. So.

you're not kind of, faced with things that you don't know how to deal with, I would say. So on that end, you know, I've, I'm almost home here somehow. And the other thing is because obviously I don't look, you know, I look how I look. I think that's also something fascinating for people who kind of try to understand like, how is it that you are here and like,

Dominic Lawson (12:36.908)
Makes sense.

Claire Murigande (12:51.598)
Who are you basically? And the fact that I, like I said, I know my way around, I worked here, I studied here, so I know what people are talking about, so I'm basically part of the environment. I think it's always interesting because for me, I take that as a sort of a responsibility to basically, I don't like using the word educate, but at least to show different perspectives and to give maybe an input in a conversation or in a way to approach a situation.

Dominic Lawson (13:01.324)
Right.

Claire Murigande (13:21.464)
that people might have not thought of because they don't have my experience or they don't have my references beyond Switzerland, because I do have the references, but I also have other references coming from East Africa and so on and speaking in different languages, speaking actually many languages even at home. So I think for me, I take it almost as a responsibility and a sort of an opportunity to be here and to contribute.

Dominic Lawson (13:33.389)
course.

Claire Murigande (13:48.568)
to opening up minds, that's how I see it. But obviously, like everywhere, if you're in the minority, so to speak, there are always things that you have to deal with, are, sometimes I say because people don't know, it's a lack of knowledge and education.

It's up to you to decide if this is important or not, if it's worth your resources. But these are things you also learn with time as you grow older.

Dominic Lawson (14:15.745)
Right.

Right, for sure, for sure. And speaking of places where you were not the minority, I sat in on your panel at Afros and Audio. It all African podcasting panel, which was phenomenal. I've shared personally some of the thoughts that I've had with you and what it meant to me to see that panel and discuss things. Kind of talk about, you know,

your experience on that panel and some of the things you kind of discussed for the Dripin' Black Family, Claire.

Claire Murigande (14:51.8)
Yeah, that was absolutely amazing panel. And by the way, thank you so much for the feedback. And you're not the only one, I think we kind of planted a few seeds in the audience. And it was actually great to be also there representing the African continent, because since I've podcasting and the fact that I also do it in English, obviously, you know, the US and the UK and any other English speaking region predominantly, that's where I also have most of my audience.

And being there, representing the continent, was actually very interesting because that's when you realize you get together with people who have similar experiences, even though their environment is slightly different. So most of the people in the panel, actually all of them, I was the only one who was based in Europe, but all the others are in the US. There is this thing of, you know, I felt like it was very strange because I felt like

Dominic Lawson (15:42.755)
Right.

Claire Murigande (15:49.55)
being home away from home and home in the sense with the people that have the same upbringing as you, but who have been obviously in different environment than the places where their culture is from. And that's, think, something that connected all of us. And the fact that we were telling stories in different ways and from different angles was super interesting. And like I said before, you know, also

the way I moderate events and the fact that I'm interviewing people on the podcast, it was absolutely great for me to bring all these personalities together and try to present a story in that moment in time and say, look, we are also here in the podcasting scene and this is what we bring and this is how it makes it even more enriching.

Dominic Lawson (16:39.136)
Absolutely, absolutely. Like I said, it was a phenomenal panel. Definitely one that I found insightful for multiple reasons for sure. But let's talk about your show, Narratives of Purpose. Just kind of talk about why you wanted to start the show, what inspired you to amplify.

these change makers that you talked to. I listened to your latest show talking about investment in Africa, in the oncology space and things of that nature. Can you talk about why you wanted to do the show?

Claire Murigande (17:13.944)
Well, I guess it pretty much ties into what I was saying before in terms of me being here and having this responsibility or at least this opportunity to bring a new perspective to people. It's another form of doing that which is much more tangible, right? Which is not only tied to certain situations, but actually I can put out something the way I see it. And most importantly, I can really amplify the work of people that I see are doing amazing things.

Dominic Lawson (17:21.612)
Yeah.

Claire Murigande (17:42.872)
perhaps don't have that platform, okay? They don't have this visibility and I can contribute to that. So that was really the main thing. And the way it started was actually almost five years ago. So during the pandemics of the first, the summer of 2020, and I had this thing that I realized that because it's sort of the everything's wrong, everybody's at home and you don't see people.

It feels like it was only bad news and we didn't know what was going to happen next. But in spite of that, things were still happening. People were still doing amazing things, but we didn't hear about those. I guess this is probably what news is all about. News is about things that are wrong, but sometimes news don't give you the solutions. So I thought, wait, we need to talk about solutions because it's not only things that are wrong. In fact, if you probably look at it, objectively speaking, there's probably more positive things happening than more negative things.

It just depends who is speaking the loudest or who actually has a platform. So thought maybe even from my own small place in the middle of Switzerland, I can do something because this podcasting, this medium is so powerful. The audio medium in general, where I decide with radio and so on that you can reach anybody, anywhere. And even in places where maybe infrastructures are not as developed in perhaps in the US or even Switzerland.

Dominic Lawson (18:42.701)
Right.

Claire Murigande (19:12.196)
then lots of people have smartphones and you can listen to these stories through those devices. So for me it was almost a no brainer, it's like, okay, no, I need to find a way to tell these stories and to bring these phenomenal people, to create a platform for them and to just show what they are doing. Because the other thing I realized is that for me personally, as an avid podcast listener, I also know that there's also power into listening to someone's story.

Dominic Lawson (19:29.614)
right.

Claire Murigande (19:42.436)
when they tell what they do firsthand, because one thing would be like for me, readings about someone and then telling to you about the story. But if I chat with this person and they use their own words, then you might relate much better than if I tell you, right? So if you know firsthand. those are two things. I want to show the positive aspect of things that happening and also to relate to the listeners and say,

Okay, if this person who is based in Ghana, guess that's the one you are talking about, latest episode, was able to go from doing research and now building a company and raising money. Okay, it's not impossible. If I have an idea and I can do it and I see that I can bring a solution, well, I can just tap into that and really get that motivation and that courage to start something, whatever it is, right? I I spoke to people who might be maybe working at

Dominic Lawson (20:13.965)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Murigande (20:39.332)
community level, some other more global. But the thing is, it's all the same thing. You need to start somewhere and you don't know what's gonna lead you. So that's the whole background of the podcast.

Dominic Lawson (20:49.368)
For sure. No, I love that. And it was a phenomenal conversation. The episode that I listened to. And it made me think about, especially here in the States, and forgive me for being US-centric, right? Because I'm a bit of a homer, so forgive me. I try my best to be a global citizen, but sometimes when you live in the US and you have two big oceans on the side of you, you feel kind of insular.

Claire Murigande (21:14.176)
Yeah, well, the US is almost a continent, I don't, you know, no need to ask for forgiveness.

Dominic Lawson (21:19.97)
Right, right, right, right. But what I will say is that I think sometimes growing up in the States, especially as a person of African descent, right, there's certain connotations and images and stuff like that that we see from Africa. And unfortunately, they're kind of negative, if you will, right? And I think that conversation that you had with the gentleman, forgive me, I can't.

remember his name at the moment. I definitely don't want to mispronounce his name for sure. But I think what that conversation highlighted was how there's a lot of investment going on in Africa. There's a lot of people doing leading technology that's coming out of Africa and Ghana and Kenya and all over the continent. How important is it, you personally, Claire, for people to see Africa in that light?

and not necessarily from the light of what we usually see here in the States of like having to give aid and things of that nature. Does that question make sense?

Claire Murigande (22:22.02)
It does, yeah. And you're absolutely on point. That's the whole objective as well, you know, beyond... Because I spoke to people from all over the world, more or less, I mean, except for maybe Australia and South America. But I mean, I can talk to someone who is based in Switzerland doing similar work than someone who's based somewhere in Africa or somewhere, I don't know, in India, for example. And it's important because it just, as you said before, I mean, you need to show...

reality because as much as the news wants to paint you more, know, starvation, whatever it is, now that it doesn't exist. But again, it's not the majority of what people know and it's not the reality of many people. I don't want to dismiss that because these are things happening, but they're not only happening in Africa, by the way. So, you know, that's where it's, I guess it's very important just to bring the balance back, you know.

Dominic Lawson (23:12.28)
Of I know. Right. Right. Listen, I, I, no for sure. Listen, I'm in the American South. I can go 20, 20 miles in any direction and it looks very, like a very similar situation of people who are in need and need aid and things of that nature, but that's not projected out into the world, the United States, right? So no, I'm on point with you there for sure, but go ahead. You were talking about.

Claire Murigande (23:22.372)
you

Claire Murigande (23:25.922)
Exactly.

Claire Murigande (23:33.185)
Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, no, absolutely. No, you're absolutely right. And that's the point. It's just to show that, you know, it's sometimes you say, you know, this expression of seeing the glass half full and half empty, you look at the same thing, but you're looking from different angles and the narrative. I guess that's where it comes to the title of the podcast. It's about bringing those narratives, which are very meaningful and changing that unique point of view you've always been fed and listened to, you know.

And it's just so many things are happening. So many people are doing many things. like you spoke about the panel, all these other podcasters who are also based in the United States, they're telling stories of Africans in both ways, right? And also to show Africans how it is in the US and that, as you were saying before, it's not all beautiful and gold on the streets everywhere. You need to hustle and it's very difficult. The same thing in Europe. There's always this like

Dominic Lawson (24:30.99)
No it is not. Right.

Claire Murigande (24:36.478)
a unique narrative of saying it's better. I don't mean to say it's not better, but depending what circumstances you arrive in here, it can be super, super difficult and awful. And these are stories you don't tell about. And I think that's the power again of audio and the power of podcasting and the fact that you can have all these independent creators, you get to listen to all these versions.

of the story, you get to listen to all these stories and you get to understand and have really like a comprehensive view of what the world is really. And it's no longer just one news network or two or three and which are, as you were saying before, political oriented on this side or on the other side and so on. You get really listen to, you know, authentic stories. I think that's super important. so the to come back to what you were saying before the so my last guest, his name is Dr. Yael Bediaco.

So he's Ghanaian and he studied in the UK and the US, I believe as well. And he did lot of research. was lecturing at university and now he started his biotech company, which is based in Ghana and there's different hubs across the continent. And obviously he is also coming from the perspective to say, whatever we learn in school, like I was saying before, I I didn't learn in school, at least at that time. I don't know if it has changed now.

Dominic Lawson (25:40.77)
Right.

Claire Murigande (25:59.618)
that African population is the most diverse in terms of genetics, right? And that in itself, as a scientist, should be like a core information to say, okay, if I want to develop these drugs or these therapies, and I want to cater to a maximum of people, then I need to consider also that population in my trials, in my research, and that's what he's doing, because so far it has not been done, which sounds like, but why not, you know?

And I also had a few other guests as well who are based in South Africa. One is in South Africa, one is in the Switzerland, and they're both also within health and health tech and how to advance all these, basically how to have maximum population benefit from technology. And they have developed models that were really made for Africa because obviously infrastructures are not always in place. You can't take a model from somewhere, for example, Switzerland and

Dominic Lawson (26:45.038)
you

Claire Murigande (26:58.244)
just bring it in any country in Africa. And they have developed really models for the specific context that are now actually, at the time I spoke to them, I think it was a year ago, they were bringing those type of models to the US, to certain communities, because again, the access was so difficult to healthcare, but they have proven that this works and this can be actually translated. So I really love that the fact that there was this sort of to north transfer.

you don't really see. again coming back to your point it's aid, it's we bring in, we do know but there is knowledge on the continent, there's knowledge everywhere and we actually be open to learn from that because that's where some situations have been more difficult and more challenging that probably the solutions are much more inclusive even in the West.

Dominic Lawson (27:45.92)
Absolutely. And, you know, speaking of inclusivity, you know, I know you're passionate about gender parity and inclusion. How do these things weave into your podcast and the change makers you showcase? Right. Because I think that you do a really good job of making sure that you have those conversations as well.

Claire Murigande (28:06.596)
Exactly. So that's one thing. Well, I suppose it was a challenge in the beginning. And as they tell you, when you create something, you know, find your audience, have your niche. And I was like, no, but I don't want to niche myself. This is everything is important. We need to talk about everything. So I went really like casting a broad net when I said, no, no, no, just go on. Okay. So, but I guess that's how I am. And, know, I walked through that anyway. And.

Dominic Lawson (28:15.33)
Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (28:19.897)
Right?

Dominic Lawson (28:32.28)
for sure.

Claire Murigande (28:33.504)
Yes, again, like you were saying, inclusivity means who are these people who are developing solutions to make sure that if you are part of a disabled group of population, for example, you still have access and your rights are recognized in the workplace, you know, all these things. And it all makes sense because if you look at, know, I had this analogy once, I was telling someone for you as a human being, you can't live off of just drinking.

I don't know, beer and just eating tomatoes, for example. You need to have a bit of everything. mean, so basically if it's out there, if it's in nature, it means that it has some use, right? It needs to be considered. So if you, as a human being, you exist, you are bringing something to the collective. And if you're not included in whether it's workplace, whether it's, know, healthcare, you don't have access. And for me, it's whoever is working towards finding that solution.

Dominic Lawson (29:05.505)
right.

Claire Murigande (29:32.992)
is important and needs to be on the podcast. So I'm more of a person who is more like, how do you say, I don't specialize really. I guess that's why I also had different positions in my career. didn't just, I saw a different therapy area, not only one. I'm always fascinated by people who are specialists. For me, it feels like the most difficult thing to do because it doesn't come naturally.

Dominic Lawson (29:57.304)
Gotcha, for sure. No, I get that. I think there's times where you do need specialists, but I think there's also times where you need people who who I like to say know a little bit about a lot of different things, right? And I think there's definitely value in that for sure. So I can appreciate that for sure. But in many of your different career paths and avenues and things of that nature, I imagine you've seen

different styles of leadership, right? You know, when it comes to people in charge or necessarily not in charge, right? Cause I don't believe, you know, leadership requires like a title or something like that, right? I guess I'm curious in your experience, what has been the best examples of leaders and leadership, like leaders who empower, you know, people who answer to them or people who listen or something like that. guess I'm curious.

know, would have been those best examples you've seen and probably experienced when it comes to leadership.

Claire Murigande (31:01.038)
That's a great question. The best example, I guess, is probably also depending on the circumstance or the environment. I would say inclusivity is something very important, but also being able to give a vision, having a vision and being able to

Dominic Lawson (31:02.732)
I try my best.

Claire Murigande (31:28.292)
to gather people around and follow that vision and give them the means to actually even develop their own contribution to that vision, right? So I don't think, in my experience, has that been invoided in one person? I'm not so sure, but I've probably seen that in different types of leaders or managers. And that's probably also what I have very much tried to do as a...

Dominic Lawson (31:49.026)
Gotcha.

Claire Murigande (31:55.46)
you say people manager or people leader at some point and to be honest sometimes it has been like going against what the what do you like the common assumption of saying okay you're in this you know you're in a company or whatever and you just have to perform and they have this such and such time to perform and you have to reach this point so that actually is is real lot of constraints on how you want to to achieve

whatever we need to achieve. It doesn't mean it doesn't work. Maybe in some circumstances it worked, but sometimes it doesn't. I think, I guess being a good leader is being able to adapt around the circumstances. And if you're a startup, are you funding a startup? Do you have like a company that's been around for a while and it's just about managing portfolio? So I guess someone who is able to, or people who are able to adapt on that and especially understand who are.

the people making the team or making the company and being able to see either potential or give them the space to bring what they can contribute. That for me would be excellent leadership.

Dominic Lawson (33:07.894)
I love that. love that. You know, Dr. Mudra Gunde, I want to say thank you so much for this conversation. We're definitely starting to wrap up here. And again, Driven in Black Family, if you want to check out the Narratives of Purpose podcast, make sure you have that in your podcast queue in all podcast platforms. It's a great show, phenomenal show. Definitely a lot of different perspectives and insight when it comes to many different things. Entrepreneurship, education, academia.

and all the things in between. Dr. Murigande, what's next for the Narratives of Purpose podcast? Are there certain topics you want to discuss that you haven't been able to discuss so far? There's a certain guest that you're looking for. I'm curious about what's next for the podcast.

Claire Murigande (33:53.188)
you

think I have lots of ideas and guests and topics, but what I want to focus on, yeah, the thing is I want to focus on something specific this year is to develop media partnerships with events and conferences. Because I think something that I've learned also with time, whether it's through the podcast or whatever, working together brings much more or brings you further than doing things on your own.

Dominic Lawson (33:58.168)
fair to

Claire Murigande (34:20.566)
starting this I was doing on my own, but then at some point I got a team and things were growing. But I also realized that if I want to tap into some more broader, how can I say this, broader topics that gather even more people beyond the podcast audience and maybe some of the organizations and structures I've been able to partner so far, I like to bring it to a different stage and really

become a media partner collaborate with events and conferences. And I have two things coming up this year. So in May, at the end of May, on the 23rd of May, there's an event happening in Geneva. And it's the third edition of this conference, which is the International Day for, no wait, have to, International Day Against Harassment and for Inclusion in the World of Work. So I was fortunate to moderate a webinar last year.

Dominic Lawson (35:12.974)
Okay.

Claire Murigande (35:17.834)
And this year I'm part of the organizing committee. And what I want to do is to combine the people who will be on the webinars and create like a special series out of it through the podcast. So that's the whole idea is to say, okay, there is this event or there is a conference which is gathering so many people. How can we bring like a complimentary content to that? And obviously audio is my thing. So on your platform that can be also interesting for those guests who

Dominic Lawson (35:20.814)
Very nice.

Dominic Lawson (35:43.768)
Right.

Claire Murigande (35:47.108)
probably just had this audience who were present, but then with the fact that it's on the podcast and this medium, then they will have like more lasting, if you will, presence from that conference. So this is happening in May. Another one I'm super excited about happening in June in Paris, 10 to 12 June. It's the HIMSS and that is the number one health tech conference in Europe.

And I will be moderating the women's health track and my podcast will also be there at the exhibit floor to make sure that we can capture as many trailblazers, pioneers and leaders within health and health tech and focusing specifically again, coming back to inclusion and equity on gender, closing the gender gap in healthcare, but also anything around access to healthcare or underrepresented populations. So.

Dominic Lawson (36:20.514)
Very nice.

Claire Murigande (36:43.364)
Those are two things really I'm excited about coming up and I hope that, know, whoever is listening, not only tune into the podcast, but we're also looking for partners. So if you have, you know, brands, company, organization, and you're close to this, one of these two topics in any way, and you want to support us or collaborate with us, you know, just reach out.

Dominic Lawson (37:03.438)
Absolutely. Absolutely. No, that's some big time superstar status stuff there, Claire. Congratulations on all of that. One in Geneva and one in Paris. That's amazing, for sure, for sure. One last question I want to ask is, as somebody who amplifies change and change makers,

Claire Murigande (37:08.76)
Hahaha

Claire Murigande (37:14.764)
in Paris.

Dominic Lawson (37:27.296)
For people listening to this podcast, they're dripping in black family. What's one message or call to action you want to leave listeners with today? Right? May like maybe just to be a little bit more curious, sir, as they go on their journey, what's that call to action you want people to have as we kind of wrap up today?

Claire Murigande (37:48.14)
I would say keep questioning things that you feel don't add up or don't seem right to you. Just keep questioning and in an open mind. Something I learned also with time is you can come from this frustration space where you're questioning but from a negative, if you will, space where you're like, no, we shouldn't be like this because this is this and that. And these people are not...

like okay why is it like this how did it come to be because you know maybe you engage more into conversations where you open up people's minds i think for me it's like you know keep questioning if there's one thing that we shouldn't stop because not only if to conversations but maybe it's also one of a good way to find solutions to to whatever we're dealing with

Dominic Lawson (38:39.766)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for that. So here in On Dripping in Black, we like to immortalize our guest a little bit here. And so when I asked this last question, Esquire is going to cue something up for you to kind of share with you in order to do that. But my last question is this, you know, Claire, Dr. Murigande, all the things, all of your parts decides to, you know what, I'm ready to retire.

and I'm ready to let the next generation take on this phenomenal work of, you know, highlighting change makers and leaders around the world and things of that nature. When you retire and they start talking about the legacy of Claire Murigande, what do you hope that they will say about you? Big question.

Claire Murigande (39:30.264)
That's not a fair question.

Dominic Lawson (39:31.982)
Laughter

I know, I know.

Claire Murigande (39:36.452)
You

people say about me gosh I never thought of that

Dominic Lawson (39:45.295)
Because you're doing some amazing work, right? And I think, you know, we all live in, you know, well, a lot of us, you know, as we get older, we think about the past and things we've done and hopefully the impact we made. We started to think about what our legacy is. And so that's why I wanted to ask that question.

Claire Murigande (40:01.188)
Hmm.

Claire Murigande (40:07.094)
I would probably say that...

Claire Murigande (40:12.834)
Yeah, I love people to remember me as someone who is constantly reinventing her path, her life, or the way she goes through life. And really not afraid of saying, okay, maybe I can start here now, or maybe tomorrow is not given, so what do I have here right now to make the best out of it? And that having that mindset has actually enabled me to have people like you say that what I'm doing is phenomenal, right? So I think that's a...

Yeah, I like that.

Dominic Lawson (40:43.022)
Okay, awesome. Well, it is phenomenal, right? And speaking of phenomenal, that's why we wanted to kind of share some with you. So when people come on the Dripping in Black Family, we like to immortalize that time with our guests. And so, Esquire is gonna pop something up on the screen for you there, just as a token of our appreciation of you coming on the show. So that is a magazine cover with you on there, just kind of...

Claire Murigande (40:45.732)
you

Claire Murigande (41:06.499)
Wow!

Dominic Lawson (41:10.53)
you know, highlighting what you do, what you're all about and the phenomenal things that you're doing to make a difference and an impact in the world. So that is a magazine cover that Esquire will send to you in the coming weeks and months and things of that nature, just to say thank you so much for coming on the Dripping in Black podcast.

Claire Murigande (41:31.524)
Thank you. I'm the one to thank you. This is amazing. I love it. I love it.

Dominic Lawson (41:39.178)
Love it. Awesome. Awesome. So as we kind of wrap up, Claire, if you would just kind of remind the people once again where they can find you, where they can find the podcast and things of that nature.

Claire Murigande (41:50.084)
Sure, so the podcast, the easiest way is to go directly on our website. So, I mean, it's a mouthful, but there's a short link to that. So you go on bit.ly, so bit.ly, slash, narratives of purpose, all in one word. And there you land on the website. And if you can subscribe to the newsletter, it's the best way to be informed of what's coming up.

And as for me, social media, I'm actually more active on LinkedIn. So if you're on LinkedIn, you can find me, Claire, C-L-A-I-R-E, Murigande, M-U-R-I-G-A-N-D-E.

Dominic Lawson (42:24.48)
Awesome sauce, awesome sauce. Thank you so much, Dr. Claire Murigande for coming on the show. Please again, thank you so much, Dripping in Black Family. Be sure to check out narratives of podcasts on all your paid major podcast platforms, but it's easier to find on the website, just like Claire said. Thank you, S Squared, for coming and letting me be a guest host again. More importantly, thank you, Dripping in Black Family. And again, listen, gotta get this merch, gotta sell this merch out here, D-I-B-K Drip Shop.

Claire Murigande (42:28.782)
Thank you.

Dominic Lawson (42:53.422)
Sorry Claire, we're capitalist here over in America. You know how we do. Thank you SSquared for letting me come and do this for me. Thank you Dripping in Black Family. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Thank you for supporting and thank you for subscribing. And until next time, be kind, be excellent on purpose. It's a choice. And as always, keep it black. Peace.

Claire Murigande (43:15.31)
Thank you.

Dominic Lawson (43:16.482)
Thank you. And that's it. Thank you so much for doing this.

Claire Murigande (43:19.054)
awesome thank you thank you for the questions you're right you're really excellent at that

Dominic Lawson (43:23.31)
Pump the pressure to the world.

Well, listen, you moderating all these big time panels and stuff like that, the pressure was on a little bit. The pressure was on a little bit. On a little bit, yeah, the pressure was on a little bit. you know, was... A lot of meditating, a lot of meditating. But no, you make it easy, Claire. I have been looking to have this conversation with you for a while now. And so, that wasn't just, you know, fluff. I really do...

Claire Murigande (43:30.626)
you

Claire Murigande (43:35.112)
Was it? Okay. I couldn't tell. So that's a good sign. So you're very good. Exactly.

Dominic Lawson (43:56.256)
appreciate the work that you do and things of that nature. like I said, that's why I wanted to have this conversation with you. no, for sure, for sure, for sure. And again, was just, was a, the questions weren't too bad. And like I said, I just wanted to have a great conversation with you.

Claire Murigande (44:04.206)
Thank you. It means a lot, really.

Claire Murigande (44:17.476)
Cool.