Dripping in What’s Poppin’ Penny? featuring Toni Kennedy

Dominic Lawson (00:01.762)
What's up good people all across the world. This is the Drip It in Black podcast. I am your guest host, Dominic Lawson. I'm a multi award winning podcast across multiple genres, including history, mental health, behavioral health, history, sports, and all the things, right? And so I am so glad once again to have the honor to be the guest host of Drip It in Black. Just want to say again, thank you to S Square, the man behind the glass for this amazing opportunity.

And as always, as you know, I'm a company man, at least I try to be right. So before you, I know you see the fit dripping in black, no hoodie, sweatshirt. So if you want to get one of these, any account on Merck, any other merch that we have at the dripping in black, go to D I B K drip shop.com to get this hoodie and other merchandise to represent the dripping in black brand.

But let me get to the task at hand here. She is a dynamic children's entertainer and educator whose journey spans music, theater and podcasting from performing alongside legends and serving as Whitney Houston's personal makeup artist. We got to dive into that a little bit. Tony's path has led her to creating What's Popping Penny, a podcast inspired by her granddaughter that's already being recognized by the likes of Spotify and others.

Through her puppet shows and the children musical preschool family, the musical, Tony brings fun interactive learning experiences to young audiences. Welcome to dripping in black, Tony Kennedy. How's it going, ma'am?

Toni (01:35.275)
Thank you so much Dominic. That was so nice of you to say and it's so nice of you to have me on. I'm doing great.

Dominic Lawson (01:41.518)
Absolutely. I have been looking forward to this for a week now. I know we met in Baltimore. We're a little bit removed from the Afro and Audio Podcast Festival. And I just loved your energy and meeting you in person and definitely loved them snacks you came through with. hey, listen, you know, listen, I don't know, listen, Drippin' Black Family, I don't know if you ever had the combination of Skittles and popcorn. Take it from me. It's delicious.

Toni (01:59.272)
Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (02:11.616)
So just wanted to make sure I said that. There to see, look at that on brand, on brand. I love it. love it. No, but speaking of what was popping, I want to hear about your story, you know, before the podcasting and everything, who is Tony Kennedy? Where does she grow up? And just tell me all the things.

Toni (02:12.142)
It's what's poppin'.

Toni (02:31.778)
Okay, so like Steve Martin in The Jerk, was born a poor black child. I was born youngest of nine in St. Petersburg, Florida, which it was not the progressive place it is now. You visit St. Petersburg now, it's a wonderful community, it's a diverse community, it's one of the largest queer communities in the country. And

when I was growing up, it did not even integrate. The laws didn't hit the books until 1972 and I was in the second grade. So it was a much different place, but it was a good place. I grew up in the oldest project there in St. Petersburg. At the time it's called Jordan Park and three doors down you will find Angela Bassett and her mom and sister. So

Dominic Lawson (03:25.77)
wow.

Toni (03:27.69)
Jordan Park, I say thank you. You obviously have something in the water where good things happen to those that eventually are able to come out of it. I had a sister that was 16 years older than me and she married her college sweetheart when I was in the fifth grade and he was a ball player in Washington. His name was Ed Leggett and he was a professional athlete and so they figured they could do better for me.

Dominic Lawson (03:37.304)
I love it.

Toni (03:55.498)
than living in St. Pete. So starting in the fifth grade, I moved in with my sister and her husband, and I lived with my sister in Washington, Tacoma, Maryland, in that whole area until 12th grade. 12th grade, I was attending the School Without Walls, and my sister was getting married and wanted to start anew. So she sent me back down to Florida.

and I hadn't lived in Florida for all those years. And so was kind of a traumatic event, but it led to a life that I love, ended up loving. It was from Florida. I didn't go to college. My high school advisor said, you should get a GED. I was telling her, you know, I was like, I'm really having a hard time fitting in here.

Dominic Lawson (04:29.326)
Mm-hmm.

Toni (04:54.126)
And she was like, that's okay, you can go and get a GED and it's just as good. So I was like, thank you, Caucasian lady for that great advice. And so I did that and I joined a band. Yeah, just a little thing, my uncle who was in politics in DC.

Dominic Lawson (05:01.968)
Right.

Dominic Lawson (05:13.952)
Okay.

Toni (05:23.138)
Don't know how he did it, he did it. He's like, we're gonna get you into American University. You're gonna go to American University. You're gonna become the teacher you've always wanted to be. And I was in Florida and it was just like, I'm gonna join a band and I'm gonna go to Aruba and I'm gonna live in Aruba. And from Aruba, I, cause they kick you out after five months. I went to.

Dominic Lawson (05:49.646)
Okay.

Toni (05:52.102)
Awahoo. I lived in Hawaii. I was a singer, thanks to a really nice lady, Asher McCall, who's like the black don-ho of Awahoo. And Asher did this really cool thing for this little 20 year old girl. She gave me her room two nights a week and her band. Yeah, and she taught me to...

Dominic Lawson (06:04.301)
Okay.

Dominic Lawson (06:13.119)
wow.

Toni (06:17.548)
and I'm gonna put quotation marks around it. If you ever hear me sing, you'll know why. She taught me how to sing jazz, but more than anything, she taught me how to perform and to live out loud, you know? And so that's what I did. I lived on Hawaii for, Oahu for five years. I was one of the first, not the first black model for Alamoana Mall. I got to meet the entire cast and hang out with the entire cast of

Dominic Lawson (06:25.121)
Okay.

Dominic Lawson (06:30.69)
Mm-hmm.

Toni (06:47.786)
Magnum PI because it was during that time, right? So it was a great time, but most importantly, I'm from the South, I'm from Florida and people say Florida's not South and I go, well, there's Cuba. West Side, West Side, West Florida, Bradenton, St. Petersburg, that's real country. That is very country. It's not Miami. So.

Dominic Lawson (06:49.598)
Right. Right.

Dominic Lawson (07:02.798)
You

Dominic Lawson (07:10.935)
Right.

Toni (07:17.03)
being from the South, being a little girl from the South, being the youngest of nine from the South, I had my place and I knew it. I was firmly sat in my place, right? And when I moved to Hawaii, I would get questioned a lot. Are you from here? Are you from here? And I've got one of those auras that

Dominic Lawson (07:29.856)
Okay.

Toni (07:44.888)
kind of wherever I am, people think I'm a native there. I lived in Milan for a little while, right? And so people just naturally think I was Italian when I lived in Aruba. People just thought I was, you know, Aruba from whatever they are called. And so when I, thank you. So when I moved to Hawaii, people often thought I was Samoan and they would just take for granted I was from there. And one of the things when you are,

Dominic Lawson (08:01.526)
I think you got it.

Toni (08:15.64)
separate it from the mainland and you're separated from systemic racism. I was seen for the first time and so I got to see myself for the first time. A lot of the times I would have an ambition as a kid and I was either told and I have to say out of good, my mom was a fear-based person and rightly so she grew up on the same plantation that our family had been enslaved on you know centuries before right.

She was a sharecropper at that time. And she has horrible, horrible stories about growing up in that environment, right? So she's very protective of her children and she was a fear-based person and I'm a hope-based person. So we were like oil and water, right? And when I would want to do something, my mom would say,

Dominic Lawson (09:05.73)
Right.

Toni (09:14.892)
Black people don't do that. You can't do that. Black people don't do that. And even the statement when I said I wanted to go to college as a little kid, I would play teacher all the time. And she would say, college is for white people and smart people, and you're not either. And she did not mean that harshly. That was her experience and her motherly instinct.

Dominic Lawson (09:35.66)
Right.

Toni (09:41.198)
trying to protect me from something that she saw as impossible, But I'm a hope-based person. So when I moved to Hawaii, I would get all the time, you're such a pretty girl. And I would lay in bed, Dominic, and try to figure out what was wrong with that sentence. I mean, it was like, it was like a Rubik's

Dominic Lawson (09:46.53)
Right, right.

Toni (10:10.314)
It would hit me and I would just go, okay. Thank you, but the thought process and Eventually, I figured out that They were not saying you are a pretty black girl, which is what I heard my entire life and everything that implied the limitations that Implied for me now when I saw that there was a world out there that was willing to see Tony

Dominic Lawson (10:10.656)
Mm-hmm.

Dominic Lawson (10:26.616)
Right.

Toni (10:40.042)
I got to tap into all the possibilities of Tony. My blackness was not going anywhere. I was born black, I'm gonna die black. But it was the first time I was able to imagine myself without the systemic racism that had been piled up on me my entire life. And it's wonderful that people...

Dominic Lawson (10:48.909)
Right.

Toni (11:09.72)
have homes and environments where that's not the norm. That was my norm. And since then I've met and because we don't live in a bubble, I've been able to meet parents like I'm sure your parents are like, Dominique, you can do anything you wanna do. You can be anything you wanna be. You know, I got the pleasure of meeting those type of parents too. So I was able to like, safer off some of their fuel for myself.

Dominic Lawson (11:35.693)
Okay, right.

Toni (11:37.576)
and go and do these things scared, but do them.

Dominic Lawson (11:41.976)
For sure, for sure. know, first of all, thank you for sharing that. I think what I appreciate about what you just shared is the fact of, I don't know if it's the importance of traveling, but the importance of being in different spaces, right? Because it gives you a different vantage point, a different eye view. You know, like I said, I mentioned that.

We were at the Afros and Audio Podcast Festival recently, right? And I listened and sat in on the African podcast, know, podcasters talking about their stories from Africa and this and the other. And I just remember sitting there listening to their stories and just like feeling somewhat envious of them because like it's almost like

they are affirmed in their African-ness. They are affirmed in their blackness. It's like, for however long I live on this earth, being born here in the United States, there will always be a part of me that will be a bit unsettled in that affirmation, right? Because I was born here in the United States as a black person. So I guess I appreciate your story because it made you a world citizen in that regard, into...

Toni (12:47.95)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dominic Lawson (13:03.19)
not only to see the world differently from different vantage points, but also to bring the world into you and to have those different type of affirmations, if you will, and to siphon off, you know, from different places and those experiences. So I definitely appreciate that story. And I can see why your resume is the way that it is. It's like, you know, and please don't take this the wrong way. It's like, there's a little bit of everything in there.

Right. And I think it speaks to the diversity of Tony. And I think that's kind of dope. I think that's kind of dope. Yeah. For sure.

Toni (13:35.598)
Thank you. Thank you. It took a lifetime for me to be okay with that. Like I just turned 60 this year. you know, it's every generation before this generation, right? It's been, find that one thing, stick to it. And if you don't stick to it, then you've got no stick to it-ness and you're a quitter and you're just aimless and you're, well, I'm glad.

Dominic Lawson (13:41.846)
I bet. Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (13:58.349)
Yeah.

Toni (14:03.906)
that cycle has been broken and that people understand they are multifaceted and also that life comes in seasons. Because when you caught me in my heyday in my 20s, you couldn't find a more fabulous 20 year old. I'm sorry, Dominique, it was not gonna happen. And then when I was, know, in my wife and mom phase of it all,

Dominic Lawson (14:23.534)
Yes, ma'am.

Dominic Lawson (14:32.259)
Yeah.

Toni (14:32.288)
I was a stay at home mom. was like, you my friends used to make fun of me and they say I was Donna Reed because I was just like that mom and I was killing it and loving it. When I began a career, didn't I was a preschool teacher because of the hours with my children. But then when they went to high school, when my son was in the 11th grade, I started a nursing program.

And so he was finishing up in school and I was just starting school. We were study buddies. And again, I think it's because I'm a hope-based person. Even the worst times of my life, my marriage ended abruptly and badly and I ended up homeless for a while, but I had to still be mom. So,

Dominic Lawson (15:07.565)
Right.

Toni (15:29.282)
God and I just did that thing. And my kid's first Christmas after my divorce, I purchased all their toys at a pawn shop because that's what I could afford. And I felt so bad about that for years, like shame, just shame. And one day they were talking about it and it was like, yeah, I'm really sorry about that, right?

And they were like, why that was the best Christmas ever. It's like, okay, okay, God, thank you, did that thing. I don't know why I'm always doubting. Yeah, you did it. So to say all of that, I love that I've had all of these different experiences and I've had to grow into loving me for having them.

Dominic Lawson (16:01.954)
Right.

Dominic Lawson (16:20.77)
Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (16:26.296)
For sure. I love how, it's almost like all those experiences allow you to overcome that adversity, right? And be able to, I don't wanna say bet on yourself, but like just at the very least go down the rabbit hole of what could be.

Right? Maybe it's nursing, maybe it's singing, maybe it's styling, maybe it's makeup artists, maybe it's a award winning podcast and it is all these things. Right? It's like, love that energy. Right? You know, and I think, you know, I think a lot of times in our community, we're not afforded those kinds of experiences in order to, you know, explore those things.

Toni (17:05.08)
Thank you.

Toni (17:17.283)
Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (17:19.406)
Right? And I think that's a beautiful part of your story. I want to ask you this, I want to shift gears just a little bit here because, like you said, one of those many careers you had was as a makeup artist for a very iconic singer that you were, you know, that we kind of mentioned at the top of the show. If you would, what are some things that you learned from a Whitney Houston that

you know, not necessarily like, you know, the singing or anything like that, but just how to be a professional in whatever you are and things of that nature kind of walk me through that. And if you got any stories, you know, I won't be upset, you know, you know, I mean, nothing malicious or anything like that, but just like any positive stories that, know, you want to share about Whitney or whatever. So, yeah.

Toni (18:05.076)
Absolutely. Yeah, no, actually the greatest lesson I learned while working for Whitney, and I'll circle back to her, was actually from Missy Elliott.

Dominic Lawson (18:16.195)
Sure.

Dominic Lawson (18:21.112)
Okay.

Toni (18:22.968)
We were backstage in Newark and Missy was backstage, right? And an older person said something real sideways. Like there's no two ways about it. This was real sideways to Missy.

Dominic Lawson (18:37.921)
Okay.

Toni (18:39.946)
And she said, yes ma'am. I know ma'am. She was so humble. I still can cry from thinking of it. She was so, this is Missy Elliott, right? Okay, this is Missy Elliott, but either her mom.

Dominic Lawson (18:48.845)
Hmm.

Dominic Lawson (18:52.876)
Yeah, absolutely.

Toni (19:02.168)
Her self, her God, whoever designed this beautiful, beautiful person gave her the humility.

of anyone I've ever seen. I it was, it was jaw drop because I thought, know, rightfully so, thought Missy was going to be like, you know, popping off or whatever, because it was real sideways what this person said, but the person was older, right? And Missy recognized that this is an older person and this is how we speak to older people.

Dominic Lawson (19:33.71)
Mm-hmm.

Toni (19:41.452)
but her ability to humble herself, separate herself from the greatness of Missy Elliott and humble herself to be righteous when talking to this adult that was older than she was, even though they were wrong in what they said. That left such an impression on me.

Dominic Lawson (20:07.915)
Right.

Toni (20:11.178)
And I try to share that story with every young person that I meet because young people now, they're born with smartphones in their hands. And it's easy to give way to hubris when you literally have all the answers in the palm of your hand. You can be real arrogant, real fast, and just stay that way for the rest of your life.

Dominic Lawson (20:31.81)
That's fair.

Toni (20:42.818)
but that's hubris. No when to be humble. Now that, is humanity. That's the spirit God created you in. That's the service spirit. Don't serve your ego, right? She could have served her ego and been all right about it too, but she didn't. And for some reason that just like impacted my soul.

Dominic Lawson (21:03.982)
Right.

Dominic Lawson (21:17.28)
No, I feel that. I feel that. like if anybody, you know, had the, you know, the bone of feed is to be missing that Elliott would be her, right? So no, I definitely feel that. And I think that that speaks to something that we all need to be reminded of every once in a while, right? You know, because a lot of times we feel like we can be on top of the world and just forget that like this is all be taken away from us in a heartbeat.

Toni (21:26.145)
Right.

Dominic Lawson (21:42.818)
Right, so no, I get that and thank you for sharing that lesson for sure. I'm curious about, you cause you mentioned this earlier, you know, speak to your passion about teaching and, you know, early childhood education, right? No, kind of speak to that a little bit. Yeah.

Toni (21:48.856)
Thank you.

Toni (22:04.077)
Great.

I know I grew up in a household that I was loved but it was not a gentle household. Okay. One of the most traumatic things that I remember is that

Dominic Lawson (22:13.259)
Okay.

Toni (22:25.287)
An adult around me said, curiosity killed the cat. And I came back. I don't know where I knew it, but what? I know this. got it. Satisfaction brought him back. Yay, Tony. Look how smart you are. But that was met with a slap across my face that brought stars to my eyes and lifted my little body up off the floor because it was deemed as me talking back.

Dominic Lawson (22:47.896)
Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (22:54.168)
right?

Toni (22:55.502)
The adults around me, I have come to term the type of parenting that I experienced and that many people, not just me, will like get it right away. I grew up in plantation parenting. My mom grew up on a plantation, Harsh, harsh, harsh, harsh, I grew up...

Dominic Lawson (23:17.504)
Okay.

Toni (23:25.442)
the youngest of nine siblings who had already, we put it, we survived that raising, right? And so...

Toni (23:37.998)
I really loved TV and I really loved books.

Dominic Lawson (23:44.014)
Okay.

Toni (23:47.242)
Even though the people didn't look like me, I could excuse that just to get away from where I was, right? One of my favorite shows was The Waltons. Now, when you look at, like they say, Seinfeld is a show about nothing, right? Seinfeld is a show about the nothingness of white culture. They are in on the joke and they laugh.

Dominic Lawson (23:59.105)
Okay.

Dominic Lawson (24:05.302)
Mm-hmm.

Toni (24:13.58)
Like the episode where Elaine doesn't know whether her boyfriend's black or not, and she doesn't want to directly ask. So she's trying to hint at it, trying to get him to like every episode of Seinfeld is so hysterical because the audience is in on the joke, right? It is a show about white culture. The show we got for black culture and the show we often get for black culture is

Dominic Lawson (24:31.286)
Right.

Toni (24:42.772)
not the in on the joke of it all. Jordan Peele gave us that in Get Out, right? The Afro surrealism experience, we can all laugh to that, those little inside jokes because we get them. Little white girls in the elevator, elevator opens up, two black guys are out there and the one goes, we gotta help her and then goes, man, that's a trap. Don't go and we all crack up because.

Dominic Lawson (24:50.382)
Mm-hmm.

Toni (25:12.002)
You know, we get it. The shows that I got in my time frame were Good Time,

Dominic Lawson (25:13.624)
Right.

Toni (25:22.394)
I don't really want to watch it because there's really no hope at the end of it. Even Thelma's football husband gets hurt and he has to move into the project. it's just Lucy and the football, that whole show. All hope is being snatched away. So I really love the Waltons. It was a show about nothing. It was a show about family experiences. It was a show that showed us how important multi-generational families are.

Dominic Lawson (25:34.797)
Right.

Toni (25:51.778)
the people in the family, what they have to offer. Those grandparents weren't just sitting in a corner being invisible. They were a core. Those kids could always find an adult in that house to help them through an emotional problem or a physical problem or any kind of problem they had, no matter how small or big, right? They could turn around and find an adult to help them. And so that's why I created What's Poppin' Penny.

Dominic Lawson (26:21.016)
Right.

Toni (26:21.036)
because it really is a show about, first of all, most kids shows only have other kids in it. Like I'm a rottering group of kids always together. And even in Charlie Brown, the adults said, womp, womp, womp, womp. Like they didn't even give them. But the reality is children are around adults more than they are around other children.

Dominic Lawson (26:34.22)
Right.

Dominic Lawson (26:38.591)
Mm-hmm.

Toni (26:49.0)
So that's the reality. I want it to reflect back to us, not only as a community, but even outside of our community.

Dominic Lawson (26:59.308)
No, I love that. And when you were talking about the Waltons, it made me think about your show, What's Poppin Penny, which is, know, dripping in black family. You can listen to all major podcast platforms and it's a phenomenal show, by the way. It's a phenomenal show. had the pleasure of listening to the family reunion episodes and I love the creativity in the, what did you call it? Allatena axis. And I was like, I know where that is.

Toni (27:13.4)
Thank you.

Toni (27:26.094)
Hahahaha

Dominic Lawson (27:29.258)
I know where that is, a nice little hybrid Southern place that she created. And I love the creativity in that. if you would, Tony, just tell us more about what's popping Penny and why you created it what's it all about.

Toni (27:36.59)
you

Toni (27:45.182)
Fortunately, I was chosen by Verdel Walker, producer, creator, extraordinaire of all things children, to become a part of the Spotify Sound Up program for kids. There were thousands that entered, 10 of us were chosen. I was the oldest of everyone to be chosen.

Spotify the the the win was Spotify would produce our shows right but then mid program the program was shut down so there was no winner and I'm the only one who went on to produce my podcast because you know what they say if you teach if you give a man some fish he'll eat for a day but if you teach a man how to podcast

Dominic Lawson (28:22.62)
Dominic Lawson (28:39.342)
I love it. I love it.

Toni (28:40.846)
So everything that I was able to just soak up in that program from Rebecca Cunningham and like the list is too massive for my little head. I'll explode. But I was able to continue and create my own podcast, not knowing at the time what I didn't know.

In hindsight, the experts have told me my podcast really shouldn't exist. It was extremely, untypically expensive to create. had a very large cast. and those two things alone would not have gotten my pro my project green lit by anybody.

Dominic Lawson (29:18.222)
Hmm.

Toni (29:40.718)
So that's the blessing of not knowing. Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (29:44.546)
Gotcha. No, for sure. No. And yeah, here we are. Well, we're on season two now, correct? Yeah. And it's a phenomenal show, you know, and I noticed you have the bear there in the, the background, you know, and the phenomenal storytelling, right? You know, especially, the part, I believe it was, the part three and I won't give up too many details cause we want people to go listen to, the episode for sure. And just to give people an idea.

Toni (29:49.591)
Yes.

Dominic Lawson (30:13.73)
The website is what's poppinpenny.com. Make sure you check the show notes and after you listen to this episode and go check out that website and the episodes, not just in the family reunion, but the other ones as well. I really love, you you got to the part about the quilt and it's like, it really had this just really dynamic, like, you know, storytelling piece to it. I felt immersed in it really, you know, and when you,

Toni (30:31.17)
Hmm.

Toni (30:38.618)
no.

Dominic Lawson (30:41.378)
you know, think back to our conversation just now, what I telling about how the African podcasters were telling their story. It put me in that same space of just feeling not envious, but also just feeling like welcomed and like, you know, like almost like I was hearing my own personal history in that piece. So thank you for that. What I am curious about when it comes to creating a story from from from scratch or creating a world

from scratch is exactly that, right? Cause for me, I'm a nonfiction narrative podcast. I know what the world is. It's already predetermined, but talk about Tony, the process of creating a world out of nowhere and what that looks like. Well, it's probably not out of nowhere, but like creating a world that makes sense for Penny and everybody else, the cast of characters and what's popping, Penny. Does that question make sense?

Toni (31:30.966)
Yeah, it does. Where it all starts for me is how do I make the world make sense to kids? Going back to what we were talking about before about my personal history, I was in the library. I was eight years old and a book literally fell off the shelf and hit me. And it was called, and I still have this book today and it's called A Child's World and it's a textbook.

Dominic Lawson (31:36.844)
Okay.

Dominic Lawson (31:50.198)
Okay.

Toni (31:58.826)
And because I didn't have people around me to receive my questions and to, I always say that children are pack animals, right? Maybe that's not how it should be said today, but I'm 60, so give me some grace. I say children are pack animals. The first pack they belong to is family. You have to make a child in your family feel valued.

Dominic Lawson (32:18.314)
No.

Toni (32:28.33)
and seen and essential. And if you are always shooing them away and putting them on the outskirts of what's central to the family, then that next pack is school. So they'll go to school, teachers are their pack. Teachers have great influence over children.

That's why a lot of great things can happen in school with adults, but also that's why a lot of bad things can happen at school with adults and children. Because if you don't get them in that first pack, they will definitely go to someone who does make them feel central, right? The third pack children belong to are their friends. If you haven't centered them in the first pack,

Dominic Lawson (33:16.856)
brain.

Toni (33:26.434)
by the time they get to that third pack, you gonna have some real problems, because yep, they're gonna jump off the bridge just because they friends doing it too. So for me, reading that book and having the world, I could open up a chapter and it would be explained to me why certain things are happening and it's all developmental. Humans are just developmental, that's all, it's just a process.

Dominic Lawson (33:35.757)
Right.

Dominic Lawson (33:43.522)
Mm-hmm

Toni (33:54.562)
but I didn't have anybody teach me that outside of this book. So my passion for families, for children, is to be that book to every person that I meet to show them that, yeah, it's okay, it's cool. We got this because it's just developmental. My passion comes from a place of wanting children to always feel worthy, always feel...

Dominic Lawson (34:12.779)
Mm-hmm.

Toni (34:24.546)
They're only in the process of growing up. This is not where we end up. My favorite adults are adults who are just the kid who has learned discernment.

My role as a mom to my now adult children is for my daughter. I'm a mother's helper. My role as grandma is mother's helper. Right? That was my role for my parents in preschool. I'm here to help you. Your hands are full. For kids, I'm here to reassure you all the stuff your life is messy. All the stuff you're feeling is normal.

Rejection does hurt That's not in your imagination like all the things you feel sometimes people can gaslight you and make you like get over it or you know It hurts That's not your imagination. This is hard That's not your imagination But you're not doing it alone

Dominic Lawson (35:19.48)
Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (35:31.906)
Right.

Toni (35:36.352)
And yeah, so that's where my passion comes from.

Dominic Lawson (35:39.84)
OK, let me ask you this, because you were talking about just now, like, you know, sometimes life gets messy and stuff like that. And when I listen to your show, it puts me back in the the mindset and mind frame of watching PBS as a kid. Mr. Rogers, you know, you know, Ghost Rider.

Right. You know, that's my generations and stuff like that. Obviously reading Rainbow, Sesame Street, things of that nature. And one of the things that they did sometimes were going back to the messy life part is that like sometimes you have to share with kids tough subjects. Right. Right. You know, and I'm curious for Tony, you know, because I did mention, I mean, you did mention in there, like the journey from Africa to the United States. Right. And as a black person in this country,

Toni (36:19.61)
Mm-hmm.

Toni (36:29.848)
Mm-hmm.

Dominic Lawson (36:32.15)
I don't need to fill in the blank about what that journey was. Talk about Tony's doctrine of like talking about the tough conversations in your work. Does that make sense? Does that question make sense? Okay, yeah.

Toni (36:42.678)
Yes, we and that's through every single episode that you'll ever hear. And from from me, it's always meet them where they are. We talked about grief the very first episode, we meet Penny and her family is grieving, but the adults are doing it one way that is really strange to her because they're talking about her granddad and they are laughing.

Dominic Lawson (36:48.462)
100%.

Toni (37:11.264)
And this is making her low key angry. And there's nobody there that she feels is TA the teddy bear. TA stands for trusted adult. And so her grandpa was her trusted adult. And so she makes a wish, she comes back and he explains how when people talk about people, it makes them feel happy for a little while because they're talking about the good stuff. yet, but they are grieving just like you. Yes, they are sad.

And so now Penny is back connected to her family. She thinks like they're having two separate experiences, but TDA is able to bring her back centralized into the family, right? Next episode, she and her grandma talking about this cake that her grandma made and how her grandma just springs to her, this is a treasure. And she's like, a treasure like rubies and diamonds? And she's like, better. This is our, this.

Cake was in our family before we were able to write it. And she explains to Penny that people who looked like you and me, we weren't allowed to learn to read or write. We weren't allowed to own things like houses or furniture. And Penny's responses, that's not fair because I'm going to tell you the secret of children. Children do not care about right or wrong. Is it right to eat cake in the morning for breakfast?

Dominic Lawson (38:35.405)
Right.

Toni (38:38.976)
I don't know, I don't care. Is it fair that Jamal gets to eat cake for breakfast and I don't? that's the hill I'm gonna die on. That's children, they care about fair. So when her grandmother presents this information to her, right, her response is that's not fair. Now, at that point, parents can go back in and fill in the blanks.

Dominic Lawson (38:47.884)
Right.

Toni (39:06.094)
for their particular child on their particular level, wherever their child is, but I've started the conversation, right? And that's what I do in the magical family reunion episode as they're just driving along and Spicy says, and Penny's like, are we lost? And Spicy's like, no, you see that river right there? That's where the Clotilda sank. And like, there are some parents that's gonna go.

Dominic Lawson (39:14.413)
Right.

Toni (39:34.186)
And there are other parents that are going to go, did she just say close to that? Does she just introduce my baby to a significant part of not only American history, but our culture's history? Now I have a jumping point to start this conversation. So, yeah, I forgot the question. I'm sorry, Dominique.

Dominic Lawson (39:47.222)
Right.

Right.

Dominic Lawson (40:00.992)
no, no, no, you're totally fine. Like you're right on par. Basically, the question was just like, you know, what's the doctrine for you to introducing tough subject matters? Basically, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Toni (40:03.918)
you

Toni (40:11.808)
It's where they are. is meet them where they are. I had a parent whose daughter would get upset when she started saying, you're black. And she's like, God, I'm afraid she's not proud of our hair. What did I do? Like that's what parents always do, right? What did I do? And he said, no, developmentally where she is is, and she's entrenched in it cause she's mastered it. I am Sammy. You are mommy.

Dominic Lawson (40:29.964)
Right.

Toni (40:41.772)
That is a cat. This is a desk. Right. And so when you say you are black, she goes, no, I'm not because you're really rattling her with her base knowledge. Right. The way to introduce it into her world is to don't use words like you are statements versus we

Dominic Lawson (40:43.938)
Right.

Dominic Lawson (40:57.023)
Right.

Toni (41:11.528)
Our heritage is African. Like introduce the concept of a heritage, a culture, something that she can add and not something that she in her mind would subtract Sammy from being. We're going to add to Sammy. We're just going to keep adding. And so that helped. Yes. Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (41:36.344)
We're going to make Sammy a much fuller person. Right.

Toni (41:41.196)
But when you at that age, and you can say that to an eight year old and they get it like, yeah, I am girl, I am boy, I am black, am, you but at the age three, it's like, uh-uh, you coming in here with some nonsense, uh-uh, I'm Sammy, I know this.

Dominic Lawson (41:49.847)
Right.

Dominic Lawson (41:56.43)
Hahahaha

Dominic Lawson (42:00.802)
Right, for sure. You know, answer this question for or more so because I think when people hear children's podcasts, a lot of times grownups like, all right, cool. I just put this podcast on, shut the door. I can be out, right? Make the case why adults should listen with their kids to what's popping, Penny.

Toni (42:23.726)
three reasons. It's about a little girl with brown skin and curly hair. And when I make that statement, I don't care if the person is six or 96. They squeal. I'm a little girl with brown skin and curly hair. So they get to feel cherished in that show. That's one. Why listen to it as an adult?

Dominic Lawson (42:33.399)
Okay.

Dominic Lawson (42:43.662)
100%.

Toni (42:51.276)
I get a lot of email from men and I had to say, my God, hello people, black men nurture, black men nurture.

Dominic Lawson (43:01.966)
400%.

Toni (43:03.95)
But I get emails from black men going, man, I love this show. It reminds me of the time I spent with my dad, or it reminds me of the time I spent with my kids, or it reminds me of the time that I spent with my grandkids. Men are being seen, and they love it. I wasn't ready for that part of it. It was like, because to me it was like, duh. But the lack, how they,

was that diversity matters, representation matters. I'm seeing that the representation of the Black man in the family, nurturing, loving, hands-on, I he does his little girl's hair, that is really resonating. Another thing that's resonating is the diversity within the Black culture. Jabari, our dad,

Dominic Lawson (43:37.166)
100%.

Toni (44:02.872)
He is from Jamaica. So a lot of the feedback that I'm getting back from people in the Caribbean community is like, thank you, because most families are diverse within our own race of people. And so that is nice to be able to hear this dad speaking Patois to his little girl, you know. And then finally, what's Paul Ben Penny?

Dominic Lawson (44:19.64)
Right.

Toni (44:31.85)
is actually a parenting show disguised as a kids show.

Dominic Lawson (44:36.94)
Look at that. Look at that. I love it. I love it. You know, and like I said, the show is phenomenally done. Like I said, when I listened to the family reunion episode, I love how the older auntie is talking and telling the story. And then it just transitioned to the younger version of her telling the story of the quilt and stuff like that. That's probably just me being a podcast in there. I was like,

Toni (44:38.978)
That's why you should watch.

Dominic Lawson (45:06.257)
that is masterfully done. That is massive. What's that?

Toni (45:08.588)
You know what makes that so magical? The older aunt is played by Betty Reed Soskin. Betty is, she was awarded a medal by President Barack Obama. Betty is famously 103 now. She was the oldest forest ranger. She became a forest ranger in her 80s.

Dominic Lawson (45:17.346)
Mm-hmm.

Dominic Lawson (45:30.176)
Mm-hmm.

Dominic Lawson (45:37.201)
yeah. Okay.

Toni (45:38.316)
She was like, I'm just in here. I'm gonna get a job. So she became a forest ranger and the younger version of Betty is Betty's granddaughter.

Dominic Lawson (45:49.198)
I knew you was gonna say that. That's beautiful. Again, that's me being a podcast nerd and appreciating those little nuances and those background stories of just how powerful that part of the piece is for sure. Thank you. Yeah.

Toni (45:51.2)
It is her.

Toni (46:05.398)
Now, cousin Gwen is played by Renee Henry, who is the grandniece of Cicely Tyson.

Dominic Lawson (46:13.866)
Okay. Okay. Yeah. You got some, you got some hitters in this show. Yeah. You got some hitters in this show. Kudos to you, Tony. And, and, and, and no, seriously though, kudos to you for, first of all, making a phenomenal show, but also in the sense of how when the Spotify program kind of bellied up, if you will, you like, nah, I'm gonna keep doing this. I'm gonna keep doing this. And I imagine it's because you knew

Toni (46:18.355)
I'm

Dominic Lawson (46:42.158)
you know, the impact you could have and the importance of it, right? Because I definitely, you know, understand and feel the, the reparenting piece of it. In behavioral health, they always talk about giving yourself something that you didn't have as a kid, the reparenting of it. And I definitely see what's popping penny as doing that for those dads and for whoever who listens, you know, the 96 year old, the 60 year old, the 50 year old.

the soon to be 42 year old, right? You know, like we, I definitely feel that. So let me just, you know, say thank you for that because I think you're giving something to people that they probably didn't even know they needed. Of course, of course. Besides the fact that it's just masterfully done. Of course, of course. And again, Driven in Black Family, what's poppingpenny.com, shows you,

Toni (47:26.766)
Thank you so much.

Toni (47:31.992)
Thank you.

Dominic Lawson (47:39.47)
You know, all the episodes, meet the cast, the episodes, you some of the press that it's seen and things of that nature. Please, please, please go subscribe to What's Poppin', Penny, you know, and listen to it with your family. It's a phenomenal show. It's an absolutely phenomenal show. You gotta check it out. So I wanna ask you this as we kinda start to wrap up here and just say thank you so much for coming on the Dripin' in Black. We really appreciate your time.

Toni (47:55.278)
Thank you.

Dominic Lawson (48:08.59)
What's next for you? What you know, what's poppin penny? Just kind of share what's going on next and what you're doing to kind of scale the show and all those things

Toni (48:17.934)
I had kind of a Freudian slip just a second ago when I said watch it because it's my absolute dream to have it animated and starting with.

Dominic Lawson (48:26.71)
Are you speaking it? listen, I'm just gonna put it out there again when I listen to it. I literally I heard PBS kids. So I'm just gonna speak that to existence. So I feel I feel where you coming from. So now but you go ahead. didn't mean to cut you off.

Toni (48:38.3)
I would love that. No, it's okay. I would love PBS Kids. Yes. So excuse me for interrupting you. But you are acquainted with Animation Discovery Studios and its founder, Bree. I am an avid listener of your show. So of course I heard that incredible

Dominic Lawson (48:57.92)
Absolutely, of course.

Toni (49:05.066)
Interview and I reached out to her about Animating in much like a simple animation nothing over overdone, right? for my upcoming YouTube channel, right because I'm still not on YouTube, but I like to be and so we are partnering and as of Black Friday, yeah, it is. Hey

Dominic Lawson (49:15.203)
love it.

Dominic Lawson (49:28.142)
That feels like a dripping in black exclusive right there. That feels like a dripping in black exclusive right there.

Toni (49:33.138)
That was a dripping and black creation So I'm starting the Kickstarter off for my crowdfunding To have it animated with Bree and her beautiful children over there in her in her program Black Friday So Black Friday's coming So keep a few coins

Dominic Lawson (49:36.683)
Exactly, 100%, 100%.

Toni (50:02.094)
to put over at, in my Ko-fi, K-O-F-I, you'll find the information on my website. It's up, but I haven't said one word to promote it. This is the first time I'm even ever talking about it. So yeah, on Black Friday, just remember me, throw me some coins, and you might be receiving one of these little what's poppin' penny bears in the mail for your generosity.

Dominic Lawson (50:16.364)
Okay.

Dominic Lawson (50:33.102)
My guy, T.A. I love it. I love it.

Toni (50:37.547)
But yeah, and then we're also going to, I'm going to start illustrating for a 10 series book based on each episode.

Dominic Lawson (50:49.024)
I love it. That is amazing. And Dripin' Black, you heard it here first. We about to get some animation going with what's poppin' and panting, and rightfully so. And we always love what S. Square always called the ligature effect. We always love to see that when it comes to, especially when the alums of Dripin' in Black and working together and this and the other. And honestly, that's why S. Square does this. So we love to see that coming together.

Toni (50:56.472)
Good.

Toni (51:04.267)
Mmm.

Dominic Lawson (51:16.846)
and I got one more question for you, but before I do that, again, just want to make sure people understand, you know, just the, the, the magnificent that is the magnificence that is Tony Kennedy. Please check out what's popping, painting. You will not regret it. Go to what's popping penny.com. you know, and, and check everything out, but also while we're ready to go to Ms. Tony sings.com and you learn more about.

a lot of the work Tony does from the puppeteering and the children work and the preschools and stuff like that. Like I said, MsTonySings.com. So S Squared is getting something queued up for you that we want to give you before we get you out of here. But the last thing I want to ask you is this, which is, you know, as you create what's popping penny and everything else,

you know, when it comes to children's animation, children's programming, this, that, the other, what do you hope the legacy of Tony Kennedy will be? Because you have quite the resume, right? Quite the resume. But when it's all said and done, what do you feel like the legacy of Tony Kennedy will be?

Toni (52:29.46)
I really hope that my legacy is people trust me with.

their children externally and the child inside of them. I really hope my legacy is, I feel a more positive way about myself because I was exposed to something Miss Tony did, created or said.

Dominic Lawson (53:00.142)
I love that. I love that. S-Quare sending me a note, is asking if you can send us out singing a little bit. Give us a little bit. Okay, listen. Fair enough. You said that. You said that. That's fair.

Toni (53:06.798)
You don't want that nobody wants that There is there's a reason I think to children. They are not discerning remember I said Adults with discernment because children are not discerning. They're just like you go miss Tony and I'm like I'm going kids But it will definitely be off-key

Dominic Lawson (53:27.382)
Miss Tony did her thing, baby. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I love it. I love it. No, it's all good. It's all good. Well, we like I said, we absolutely love what you're doing. And I think S Squared is probably queuing up a nice gift for what you're doing. Listen, we love everything you're doing here at Dripin' Black. And we want to make sure that we highlight you in the best light possible. And so one of the things we do for all of our

dripping in black alums because that you are an alum now is with a magazine cover. And so obviously we wanted to highlight that and help with your branding and this and the other. So there you are. And in a few weeks, you will receive this in the mail to kind of, you know, memorialize and memorize, you know, your journey here on the dripping in black podcast. So how does that look to you?

Toni (54:09.846)
Yay!

Toni (54:18.668)
That is incredible. That's incredible. Thank you so much.

Dominic Lawson (54:24.318)
Absolutely, absolutely. Really quickly, is there anything else you want to plug or put out there, social media handles and anything like that, the floor is yours to do that.

Toni (54:34.252)
You'll find me on LinkedIn at Tony to you and I Kennedy like the Boulevard and you will find me across all social media platforms at Hey, what's poppin Penny because I am from the South. So it's Hey, what's poppin Penny?

Dominic Lawson (54:47.608)
There it is. Let them know, Tony. Let them know. No, I appreciate that. And we appreciate you, dripping in black and dripping in black family. Thank you so much for listening to this phenomenal show as we learned about Tony Kennedy and her amazing show, What's Poppin' Kennedy. And as always, remember, if you want some of this this merch, go to the D.I.B.K. Drip Shop dot com to get that merch for you. Thank you, Esquire, once again for letting me be the guest host. And more importantly, thank you, dripping in black family for allowing me to serve you.

in this role. you for listening. Thank you for watching. Thank you for supporting and thank you for subscribing. And until next time, be kind, be excellent on purpose. It's a choice. And as always, keep it black. Peace.